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Sunday, December 14, 2014

David Wood makes poor arguments part 1

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I have heard many people say morals can only come from religion. No, all you need is a smidgen reason and empathy.

1. I do not want to be harmed by other people.
2. Other people are similar to me.
3. People tend to reciprocate behavior.
4. If I am nice to other people, they will probably return the favor.
5. Therefore, if I want to avoid harm, I should follow the Golden Rule.
6. I should also support efforts to punish bad behavior and reward good behavior to provide the right incentives.

And there you go- no religion necessary, nothing but appeals to my own self-interest. Sure, some people lack either reason or empathy. But that is a problem whether you get morals from religion or not. A person who does not care about rewards or punishments in this life where they are immediate is unlikely to care about them in the afterlife.

Even when David did not fear punishment, he still tried to escape it. 
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LOL! Thomas tries to ground morality in selfishness. "If I want other people to treat me well, I should treat them well so they don't hurt me." But if selfishness is the ground of morality, another principle emerges. "If I can get away with doing X, I might as well do it." Just as selfish, and just as moral.
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+Acts17Apologetics That "If" of yours is on a lot shakier ground than mine. Criminals tend not to get away with it for long, as you yourself found out.  If I could fart money, I could quit my job. Guess what? I can't fart money. 
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+Thomas Harty Nonsense. People get away with it all the time. Some of the most notorious serial killers in history have never been caught. Following your moral reasoning, they did nothing wrong, since they acted from selfishness, which is the basis of your ethical system.
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+Thomas Harty typos- I make them. Should be"quit" not "quite".
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+Acts17Apologetics Yeah, and for every Zodiac Killer, there are a hundred who did get caught. They were being selfish, but they were doing it the hard way. If you take selfishness as the basis of morality, criminal behavior is "wrong" because it is stupid. The risks far outweigh the rewards. Even serial killers have to go along with society's rules most of the time just to stay alive and avoid being caught. 
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